[notice]Johanita Jordaan shares her personal experience of encountering the church when she was a lesbian, and offers her opinion on how to reach out to homosexuals with the love of Christ.[/notice]
After reading the article “Church will be asked to accept gays” in which it is reported that the Dutch Reformed Church will be asked to accept homosexual relationships and homosexual pastors, I carefully considered the implications of such a decision.
I believe that by sharing my personal experience I may be able to provide a perspective that will help churches in their dealings with homosexual people.
I was a lesbian. I became a reborn Christian while I was dying of a drug overdose. Three weeks later I went to a camp and there I asked a guy if it is ok to be lesbian and he was honest with me. He said that our Heavenly Father does not want me to be gay and that was all it took for me to decide right there and then: if I cannot be gay then I will be celibate. My new-found faith was way too important for me to mess it up with sin and return to my old, empty way of life. After that Abba (Father God) changed me. Today I am married to the most beautiful man and we have a beautiful son.
So it is my opinion that homosexual people should be allowed to attend churches but it must be made clear that homosexual activity is a sin and that it is most certainly not God’s will for them. Ezekeiel 3:18 “When I say to the wrong1, ‘You shall certainly die,’ and you have not warned him, nor spoken to warn the wrong from his wrong way, to save his life, that same wrong man shall die in his crookedness, and his blood I require at your hand. Footnote: 1This passage is almost the same as in 18:20-32 and 33:8-20. (The Scriptures 2009 ISR)
Homosexual people should not be allowed to get married, to be affectionate in church or to become part of any leadership within the church. It is of utmost importance to tell them to live a celibate life, even if you cannot control what they do once they leave your church grounds, it is your duty and if you do not do this then the above Scripture will apply to you.
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Remember that we cannot persuade anyone of anything, only Y’shua (Jesus) can do this by the Set-Apart Spirit of our Heavenly Father but it is our duty to pray for homosexual people. They need deliverance from this addiction. I call it an addiction because that is what it was for me. If I may elaborate a little bit: normally a homosexual person would be one who was molested / raped / abused or one who committed idolatry (Rom 1:23-24) or one who seeks attention and acceptance due to a root of rejection. Therefore they need deliverance and this will not be found on the streets. Imagine if the camp I went to had sent me away because I was homosexual at that point – I probably would have struggled a lot longer before I could choose to change.
Now most homosexual people will tell you things such as: it is not a choice because I was born this way. It’s a lie and they’re being fed this lie the way I was fed this lie and I also believed it. It is possibly because the spirit of lust that attaches to you at a very young age that the homosexual people fall for that lie. Many times before I became reborn I also tried to change and could not but it was not because I was born that way, it was because I wasn’t reborn in Messiah (Jesus) and therefore in myself it was absolutely impossible to change and to turn away from the addiction.
In summary: allow homosexual people into the Churches but do not allow homosexual beahaviour. It is the sin we despise, not the sinner. Our fight is not against flesh and blood. Who are we to judge anyone? Abba has His time and season when He will deal with the sin of homosexuality or any other sin for that matter. Our work is to teach the Truth and to live the Truth – it is this Truth that will set them free.
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Y’shua came for the sinners, not for the saints.
Very well written thank you. This is an issue that my wife and I have often discussed and debated.
Thanks Johanita, for your testimony, it is hopefully the very starting point of the conversation the church has to have if it hopes to be either true to heaven and relevant on earth. I agree with you, gays are not born that way, but STEP ONE is always being aware that the far majority of gays are carrying serious wounds, usually caused by sexual abuse. Furthermore, remember that our mandate is to heal the sick, not treat them like the lepers from scriptual times. Heal the sick in this instance means to heal them of the pain,trauma and wounds they endured during this abuse, and the miracle of coming into their true identity usually follows once the healing has taken place. Unfortunately, healing often does not actually happen because we’re more obsessed with dealing with the sinful attributes of abuse rather than with the causes, which are the wounds. For this reason many of these ‘converted homosexuals’ revert back to their former false identities. STEP TWO requires the church to take a massive introspective look at itself, before it points a finger at the world. Focus On The Family (2003) and Promise Keepers (1996) surveys showed that at least 50% of all evangelical born again Christian men are regularly involved with pornography. Christianity Today (2000) survey showed that 33% of clergy have this same problem. Christian Post (2011) survey showed that divorce rates amongst Christian marriages was now indistinguishable from the USA national average, while the Barma Group (2008) showed that 84% of Christians get married compared to only 64% of unbelievers. This Barma Group survey in effect makes divorce amongst Christians even higher. The Barma Group also tries to show that not all Christians are evangelical, but only ends up conceding that the lower divorce rates amongst the Catholics makes us look better than what we actually are. Christianity Today (2011) survey shows that 1 in 4 wives are physically or emotionally abused, and that the stats amongst Christian marriages are roughly the same. But the magazine points out that abused Christian wives are worse off and are less likely to seek help because they’re just told to submit to their husbands. Relevant Magazine (2011) survey showed that 80% of Christian singles between the ages of 18 to 29 have admitted to having pre-marital sex, compared to 88% of single unbelievers. Gets worse, of the 30% of single Christian women who get pregnant, 40% end in abortion. Once again, the non-evangelical Catholics bring the abortion figures down. I’d like to give you stats about the alcohol and drug abuse amongst Christians, but space does not allow. I would also like to give you stats on other so called sins in the church, like how Christian leaders generally treat and pay their staff compared to unbelieving business leaders. If these stats are to be believed (and they are conducted by Christian organisations, but hey, who’s listening anyway), then the story about the Port Elizabeth poultry company which made national headlines in 2011 is just the tip of the iceberg. Yes, we need to have a very good look at ourselves before we point the finger and throw others with stones. Our recent church history from 1988 (Jimmy Swaggert) to 2006 (Ted Haggard) is filled with the downfall of men and women of God who would rather point out the sin of other’s then look at themselves. When we look at ourselves in a mirror like Paul suggests in I Cor 13, we can perhaps start the process of growing up. Maybe then, and only then, will we be able to see homosexuality for what it is, a sin not unlike most of our sins, and definately not one of the sins that precedes people to judgement (1 Tim 5: 24). STEP THREE : It’s all very simple really, live the gospel and preach the gospel just as Jesus did and which can be found in the 4 Gospels. If you don’t fully understand Paul’s epistles keep quiet. It’s not a disgrace to admit that you are unsure, after all, there are over 41 000 Christian denominations in the world and many of them have their own Bible Institutions and professors, and most of them still disagree with each other’s interpretations of Paul’s epistles. STEP FOUR : treat sinners like Jesus treated sinners, and treat the religious spirit like Jesus did. Most Christians don’t realise it but Jesus did speak about homosexuality. In Mathew 11 :23 Jesus told the Capernaum’s that if Sodom had experienced the miracles which they had, Sodom would not only have repented, but their repentance would have remained. So yes, there are far worse sins than homosexuality, and lack of repentance after seeing or experiencing a miracle is one of them. It’s no wonder why some Christians are so scared of miracles and healings. STEP FIVE : don’t confuse the Truth, with that whivh is true. Jesus is the Truth, and He was the Truth long before creation, or before sin was conceived in the mind of satan, or Adam and Eve for that matter. So while it may be true that we sin, that’s not the Truth that sets one free. The truth is that we are all awesome and powerful beings, each created in God’s image, and all with amazing destinies to reveal God’s glory. Now that’s the Truth which we are called to speak in love. Or we can be like Simon the Pharisee in Luke 7 :36 to 50, and choose to speak what is obvious and true.
Hi Sonja,
i really appreciate your comments. I agree with you that we desperately need this conversation but if we are going to isolate this as a seperate issue, we are not going to get far. i have a soft spot for the underdogs in our church especially our gay brothers and sisters. the way you approached this subject will invite conversation. we often like to use this quote, we love the sinners but we hate their sin. Tony Campolo suggests we rather love the sinners and hate our own sin. maybe once we have dealt with the beam in our own eyes can we point to the speck in someone elses eye. Yet, i appreciate that my understanding of homosexuality is limited and therfor i would encourage and welcome conversation.
Dear Sonja
I was in the ministry but when my secret in my closet was discovered, I was asked to leave. Talking about rejection! But because of my calling and love for Jesus, i was motivated to continue in my path of seeking freedom.Somehow I knew that Jesus died to break the chains in my life. All I want to say to everyone out there. Their is freedom and deliverance for sex addicts. I can testify of this. I whish i could say that a fairy god mother touched me with her magic wand, but no; it took years of facing my pain,rejection and abuse. Allowing God to take me back to the painful memories and allowing Him to heal me. And each time he did this, I took a step closer to freedom. Today I have victory, but am still a broken vessel that is being used by Gods grace to help other limping men and women who are struggling with their past. I see myself delivered from this, but it is still a daily battle that I would have to fight till Jesus comes.
Can I go back to my old lifestyle? If i choose to. But if I dont, I have friends that are interceding for me. And the love of Jesus I experience because of my struggle to fight this, makes it all worth while.
Love us and accept us and allow us to serve in Gods kingdom.
God bless
aj
Hiers iets wat Arthur Burke verduidelik en wat Abba se ek met julle moet deel – (ek dink miskien omdat dit aansluit by Johanita se artikel):
The difference between sin, iniquity and rebellion:
As jy nie weet dat iets sonde is nie dan bly dit net sonde maar as jy weet dat dit sonde is en dit aanhou doen dan word dit iniquity en as jy ander mense aanmoedig en dit goedpraat dan word dit rebellion. En rebelion is deur Samuel gelyk gestel aan witchcraft.
Kom ons gebruik n praktiese voorbeeld:
Iemand wat gay sondes pleeg en nie weet dat dit verkeerd is nie is besig met sonde.
Iemand wat weet dat dit verkeerd is maar purposely aangaan en nie worry nie is besig met iniquity.
Iemand wat dit promote met gay pride marches en gay rights etc is besig met rebellion en die straf is die selfde as vir witchcraft.
So n kerk wat gay mense (bewustelik – knowingly) toelaat in enige amp of posisie van gesag – even al is dit net in die band of die koor – is besig met witchcraft.
Politieke leiers wat goed soos gay rights, abortion, gambling etc toelaat en even legalise ten spyte daarvan dat hulle weet dis sonde – is besig met witchcraft – because its rebellion against the laws of Elohim and rebellion is as witchcraft.
1 Samuel 15:23 – For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry
Hoop dit maak sin
I must admit that I found your letter very informative, and though I don’t agree with what you are saying I do accept your views.
This is exactly the reason why the GLBT community is turning way from the Christian Faith. Oh before you ask I am not a Christian, I do believe in God (several actually) but this is not the point of this missive. Johanita, I have much respect for the way you turned your life around and that you found God who most certainly carried you through what I can only take as a very bad time. But remember that you made a choice. You chose to take drugs and you chose to be in a place where you wanted to commit suicide that is a choice and it was yours. But don’t for one second blame your choices on your life style. If you made bad choices you accept responsibility for them. And as much respect as I have for Jesus, I most of the time find myself at odds with most of his followers. They hardly ever live their lives according to what his teaching require. And they always.. and I MEAN ALWAYS use scripture to validate their own existence and condemn others that don’t see their point of view. I am sure that your letter was meant to inspire and help others, to even give perhaps a glimmer of hope that LGBT members could be accepted in to your places of worship, it sadly had to opposite effect I am afraid. You cannot welcome someone into your house and then ask them to please not use any facilities because they might be … in your mind … unclean. You cannot ask gay people to not place their trust in God and His graces, when you treat them like second class citizens. So tell you beloved husband to continue to shave the side of his face, and enjoy your lovely little piece of bacon in the morning. Which if I might be so candid in reminding you is a sin and for both of those the required punishment is .. death. You want to deny LGBT community the same right you so rightly take for granted but if I may ask what exactly does homosexuality do to you, how does it undermine marriage … and I wonder where in the nine hells do you come of by saying that they must not be affectionate in a church? Do you sit and snog your husband while the pastor is preaching? If you do I am seriously worried.
I know that my comment will not be received well by most of you due to your current standing. But I will perhaps say this in closing that my own religious practices are far more Christian that what yours appear to be.
Rico, I trust you are still following the commentary. Fortunately the Church don’t burn witches at the stake any longer..I hope. And I read or heard somewhere that Jesus was also accused of all sorts of “unclean” practices. Don’t quote me on that. Obviously those accusations were false but nevertheless, He must have done something to upset the holy people. I also read in the ancient gospel, written by a doctor, called Luke “Do not judge and you will not be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven” I think he was actually quoting Jesus. Anyway if everyone else can use the Bible to backup their viewpoint, then surely I can do the same. I am fully aware of the fact that I might have it totally wrong; that is now my viewpoint on homosexuality and Jesus. But that is not going to stop me from speaking out against, what I perceive to be injustice and discrimination against the homosexual community. Not to mention those homosexuals that are followers of Jesus and desperately want to be part of the Church. The church (my church anyway) has shown much grace to me as a heterosexual person, which I am immensely greatful for. Sadly, when it comes to the gay christian, the conditions for acceptance are slightly different.
How about that conversation?
“Without holiness no one will see the Lord.” What applies to homosexuality, applies to ALL sins. All sinners are lost. If we allow ANY sinner in our churches, we cannot discriminate against gays by refusing them. If we refuse gays, we need to refuse all sinners.
So, what now?
All sinners, including gays, are welcome in our churches but they should confess their sins, and repent and call on Jesus, the Saviour, to forgive, deliver, cleanse, save to the uttermost, justify and to sanctify them – so that ALL their sins may stop and that they may live holy lives. Then they will see God. The church should help and encourage all these until they are helped – and have come to all the fullness of Christ.
Anyone continuing in any sin is still lost and need to continue seeking Jesus until He has saved them from all his sins. If a sinner however stops repenting and confessing and stops seeking deliverance but excuses or covers his sins, he is condemned – as the Holy Spirit clearly illustrated with Ananias and Sapphira. He is handled according to Matt. 18.
No one still sinning may be a leader. How can he help others if he has not found help and the answer for himself?
God requires true righteousness and holiness and this is the only consistently justifiable position the church can take. People who do not teach this, are proud, know nothing, and are obsessed with disputes, … 1Tim. 6:3-5. If ANY sin is allowed, all sins must be allowed to be consistent. Any church which allows any sin is not the church of God, but of devils. As said above, they are busy with witchcraft.
The BLOOD OF JESUS CLEANSES FROM ALL SINS and can make us holy, righteous, spotless, without fault, blameless, whiter than snow, overcome Satan, etc.
HOW?
Zech 10:12 -13:3 says how: If we look up to Him whom we pierce and crush with every sin, and if we confess it and mourn bitterly for HIM – THEN He forgives, delivers, cleanses, justifies and sanctifies us perfectly through the blood we confess we have spilled with each sin. Without this (confession of the shedding of Jesus’ blood) there is no forgiveness or deliverance from sin. Hebr. 9:22.
If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
Dankie Faan,
Jou woorde van wysheid is die waarheid.
Ons geregtigheid en heiligmaking le in Jesus alleen.
Ons enigste hoop tot verlossing en bevryding le in die bloedverbond van Jesus.
Ons is almal gebroke, homoseksueel of watter sonde ookal. Maar ek is dankbaar dat Jesus die Een is wat gebroke mense gebruik in sy koningkryk as individu of as n leier. Dis tog ons wat met die siekes daarbuite kan identifiseer.En deur ons hande gebruik Abba ons om hulle te genees. Gelukkig is my kerk vol “limpimg leaders”
Vrede
alfred
Very brave to write this article. I think it is an infringement on people’s rights when they are not allowed to seek alternatives. If I were homosexual, and found myself attracted to someone of the opposite sex, the LGBT community would not be very accepting, or forgiving of this… everyone just needs to chill out and love each other and accept that just like all other sins in terms of the bible, there is grace. It is between the person and God what they choose to do. They should know what is in the Bible, and make their own choices there after, but the church should love and embrace them.
die evangelie van Jesus die Christus is hard. Hy wat uit die Vader gebore is, sondig NIE MEER NIE. Die heiligmaking waarsonder niemand die koninkryk sal sien nie. Streef na volmaaktheid. Die kerk van vandag hou die mens as sondaar voor vir `n hoop ek word eendag gered. God het baie meer vir die mens in gedagte; `n vry van sonde, geheiligde lewe tot volmaaktheid; hier en nou! Enige sondaar, gay,dronkaard,egbreker ens. kan dit beleef!God gee jou die keuse!