Lessons for SA Church from Mashaba interview — Craig Bailie

Leadership consultant Craig Bailie unpacks a discussion between media personality Alec Hogg and political leader Herman Mashaba in order to better understand the intersection of religion and politics in SA

“We are not oblivious to the fact that most Christians in Africa have no theological or biblical foundation to guide their involvement in politics. They have not been prepared to think biblically about what to do when personal, group, and national interests clash, nor have they thought deeply about what is involved in living in states characterised by religious pluralism.” — Professor of theology, Bernard Boyo, Daystar University, Kenya

Biznews founder, Alec Hogg, has interviewed (and continues to interview) prominent persons on matters of South Africa’s national interest.

I am especially interested in unpacking some of what was said during an interview held earlier this year with Herman Mashaba of Action SA, entitled, “Mashaba:_Polls are a joke – Action SA will be #1 or #2 in 2024, helped by newly registered voters”.

From a Christian perspective, and writing as someone with an interest in the theory and practice of leadership, including within Church-state relations, the issue of real interest in the discussion between Hogg and Mashaba is not so much what polls revealed at the time or what predictions are surrounding Action SA’s performance in South Africa’s general elections scheduled for next year, but rather the intersection of religion and South African politics.

The religious statements made in the interview featuring a high-profile SA politician are of greatest significance for at least two reasons.

Firstly, SA, being no different from other countries in this regard, has a history of leaders misappropriating religion for political ends. This history includes leaders during colonialism and apartheid.

There are also those leaders active in SA’s more contemporary political landscape – see here, here and here. Furthermore, consider this piece by PhD Candidate in Theology and Religious Studies at King’s College London, David Jeffery-Schwikkard.

Jeffery-Schwikkard argues that the ANC’s successive electoral victories are at least partly explained by the fact that the ANC has combined religious rhetoric with a secular policy agenda. This is why Hogg’s assessment that mixing God and politics is taboo in South Africa, is not entirely accurate.

My reference to the historical and contemporary misappropriation of religion in SA does not necessarily imply that Mashaba is guilty of the same. However, those who believe in and aspire to uncover truth, and who believe in the need to hold leaders accountable to the truth, will agree that thinking critically about what leaders say, or do not say, is a good and necessary practice.

Secondly, according to the 2013 General Household Survey conducted by Statistics South Africa, 85.6 % of South Africans identify as Christian. Because of his political activities and aspirations, Mashaba is prominent among these.

I think it safe to say, therefore, that what Hogg and Mashaba communicate in the interview, both implicitly and explicitly, intentionally or unintentionally, about Christianity, or from a Christian perspective, has the capacity to challenge or reinforce, whether for good or bad, the thinking of a meaningful number of South Africans.

The likelihood of the ideas communicated in the interview bearing negative consequences, whether these ideas are derived from the interview itself, or elsewhere, grows to the degree that leaders from within SA’s Christian community neglect to challenge and prepare their fellow Christians to engage SA’s political landscape in a manner that testifies to the Christian faith.

Key roleplayers in this regard are those Christians who, across SA, lead and facilitate Christian gatherings on a weekly basis, including the Sunday service.

The potential for the ideas communicated in the interview to have impact among SA’s professing Christians is especially noteworthy ahead of next year’s general elections which will arguably be the most important since SA’s first democratic elections held in 1994.

If South Africans who identify as Christian desire to be salt and light, we should not only be prepared to vote in next year’s general elections, but also to cast our votes responsibly, and thereafter, have appropriate expectations of the persons who, after the elections, occupy the seats of state power.

For this to happen we will need to get our political theology right. This brings me to some of what Hogg and Mashaba said during their discussion, whether about Christianity or from a Christian perspective.

Christian political power is not a prerequisite for the manifestation of Gospel power

In his introductory address to viewers, Hogg refers to Action SA’s new campaign, describing it as communicating to South Africans: “If you’re gonna be a God-inspired country, you need to be a God-inspired party.”

For the sake of this piece, I am going to make several assumptions. Firstly, I assume that what Hogg meant to have said is: “If you’re gonna be a God-inspired country, you need to be [voting for]a God-inspired party.”

Secondly, because Hogg described Action SA’s new campaign as having a religious theme, because he was interviewing a professing Christian, and because this same person is the leader of Action SA, I assume that what Hogg meant by “God-inspired” is “Christian” and that he was referring to Action SA as the Christian political party that “you need to be [voting for]”.

Thirdly, I assume that when Hogg meant to say, “you need to be [voting for] a Christian political party”, he had one of two groups in mind. He was either referring to SAvoters more broadly, or he was referring specifically to SA’s Christian voters.

If by “you”, he meant the former, it brings into focus the challenging prospect of a supposedly Christian political party convincing non-Christians in SA to vote it into government. I will assume, therefore, that Hogg specifically meant professing Christians. It is this group that I wish to address in this piece as my primary audience.

Finally, Mashaba doesn’t appear in the interview to take any exception to, or correct, Hogg’s introductory address about Action SA’s new campaign. I will assume, therefore, that Hogg’s portrayal of what Action SA is communicating to South Africans through its ongoing campaign is accurate: “If you’re gonna be a God-inspired [or Christian] country, you need to be [voting for]a God-inspired [or Christian] party.”

What precisely it is that defines a Christian political party, and whether Action SA is in fact such a political party are questions for deliberation elsewhere.

Based on the preceding assumptions, one interpretation of the Action SA campaign message that Hogg relays in his introduction to the interview with Mashaba could read as follows: For a Christian or a more fully Christian SA society to exist, Christians in SA must vote for a Christian political party, with the hope and intention of having the same political party at the helm of government.

Whether or not this is what Hogg intended to have said, this thinking remains problematic for at least two reasons.

Firstly, it wrongly assumes that the qualitative and quantitative growth of the SA Church (meaning that, increasingly, South Africans convert to Christianity and live according to biblical principles and values because of this conversion) depends, in whole or in part, on the existence of a Christian government, or at least, a government led by a Christian political party.

Those who agree with such a portrayal of Church-state relations, will be hard pressed to explain the growth of the Church in the midst of persecution under the Roman Empire, or the astounding growth over the last 40 years of the Church in China, where the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has been in power since 1949.

Secondly, the notion that Church growth depends on a Christian political party being in power, risks confusing the roles of Church and state.

From a biblical perspective, the Church’s quantitative and qualitative growth is something for which the Church itself is solely responsible. It is not the role of the state, or the government that governs the state, to convert citizens to the Christian faith and/or disciple citizens in God’s Word, or to assist directly with either of these activities.

Baptist theologian and preacher, John Piper, does a sterling job of comprehensively defining the biblical limits of government in relation to the mission that God has set before the Church.

SA is what it is today because of the ANC, but not only because of the ANC

In the interview, Mashaba emphasises the role of communists within the ANC when explaining the state of the SA nation, the erosion of societal values and consciousness, and the attack on families in SA. Furthermore, he blames communists within the ANC for having taken “God out of our communities”.

I would like to make three general comments in recognition of Mashaba’s emphasis on the consequences of ANC governance.

Firstly, ideas matter. I agree, furthermore, that it matters most how leaders think and what leaders do because of their thinking. This includes political leaders. The adage belonging to author and leadership expert, John Maxwell, is well known – “Everything rises and falls on leadership.”

Secondly, given their power, comparatively greater access to resources, and function, governments can and often do have a major impact on the societies they govern, including on the values that underpin those societies. The same is true of SA’s ANC-led government.

Thirdly, the degree to which any government has pursued and/or enforced communist values is the degree to which that same government has fostered a society inconsistent with Christian notions of individual and communal freedom.

Mashaba’s critique of communism, even if it only takes an implicit form, therefore places him in good scholarly company. See here, here and here, for explanations of why communism is contrary to Christianity and liberal notions of freedom more generally.

The Church must take some responsibility for where SA finds itself

Nevertheless, and especially keeping Romans 3:23 in mind, Christians must be cautious about scapegoating or placing too much of the responsibility for the state of the SA nation or the country’s unravelling democracy at the feet of the ANC or with communists inside the ANC.

The truths implicit in Mashaba’s views on the impact of ANC governance do not deny the existence and significance of other truths.

The first of these is that virtuous and competent leadership depends to some degree in any context, but to a substantial degree in a democratic context (where followers have that much more freedom), on courageous followership.

Speaking broadly, courageous followership involves a willingness on the part of subordinates, employees, followers, or citizens, to hold their leaders to account in a constructive manner.

Because SA is, at least in constitutional and electoral terms, a democracy, eligible voters have an opportunity to exercise direct accountability over political leaders every five years, during general elections.

In SA, where post-1994 elections have been free and fair, eligible voters are, therefore, directly responsible for who occupies government and indirectly responsible for government policy and actions.

Based on numbers alone, is it not reasonable to suggest that SAa’s eligible voters who identify as Christian have played a significant role, whether through acts of commission or omission, in keeping a political party that Mashaba rightly or wrongly refers to as “a devil”, in political power?

Can or should government put “God” in and take “God” out of society?

Moreover, Mashaba’s comment that “this current government took God out of our communities” is ambiguous. It, therefore, risks creating or reinforcing among South Africans existing notions of the state’s responsibility vis-à-vis religious affairs, which are misguided.

What does Mashaba mean when he says that government has taken “God” out of SA’s communities? What type of community exactly is he referring to? Is he talking about the public space, the private sphere, or both?

It is entirely possible for a government to remove “God” from the legislation that governs communities or society at large, if, when what one means by “God” is God’s commandments and the principles and values that originate with God’s Word, the Bible.

It is not possible, however, for any power, including government, to remove God and what He instructs from the hearts and minds of those who, across SA, are committed to following Him. Anyone who thinks otherwise cannot be a Christian.

Because, from a Christian perspective, God’s commandments and the principles and values rooted in the Bible are for the benefit of all of creation (note the commentary here and here on the applicability of Old Testament laws today), the neglect by government specifically to enact laws that fall within God’s purpose for the state, and the neglect by government of biblical principles and values, will be detrimental for both the government and the governed, whether in the immediate or over the long term.

However, removing “God” from legislation – something Christians will argue is ill-advised – is not the same as ending legislation or customary practices that explicitly or implicitly favour or are biased towards the Christian faith or any other religion.

If, by stating that “this current government took God out of our communities,” Mashaba meant to criticise the ANC-led government for ending Christianity’s state-sponsored monopoly over religion in the public square and in SA’s state institutions, then he, and others who adopt similar thinking, should carefully consider John Piper’s biblically-founded definition of the state’s role when it comes to the matter of promoting religion.

I recently heard the senior pastor of a local church say to the adulation of several, mostly elderly, congregants: “I remember when the Word of God was held in high regard in our schools, in our courts.”

In the interview, Mashaba harkens back to his school days in the 1960s, sharing that every day began with an assembly that included Christian devotions to God.

If it is true that before the current ANC regime, the Word of God was held in high regard in SA’s schools and in the country’s courts, how is it that SA society conceived and managed to maintain for the period that it did such an oppressive and racist government policy as apartheid – a policy whose legacy continues to bedevil present-day SA society?

Biblically, government is responsible for establishing and encouraging freedom of religion or belief – also known as FoRB. It is not responsible, however, for imposing or promoting any religion over other religions in the public space by giving that religion exclusive or priority access to that same public space.

Furthermore, whatever Mashaba may have meant when he said that “this current government took God out of our communities”, the implication is that the apartheid government placed or kept “God” in SA’s communities – a notion that committed and more biblically-minded Christians will agree is problematic and in need of more unpacking than what the time and space allocated to this article allows.

Where “God” appears to be absent from any community, whether in terms of the legislation according to which the community is governed, or in terms of His will and ways among professing Christians (irrespective of what legislation may be), the Church should be cautious about pointing fingers at government without recognising its own responsibility.

Mashaba’s statement that “this current government took God out of our communities” overemphasises the responsibility of the ANC for God’s absence in SA communities while neglecting the role of the SA Church.

Irrespective of our number, SA’s practicing Christians have a responsibility to exercise to the benefit of all whatever influence we have but we must do so scripturally and according to biblical principles and values.

To do so in effectively in the political arena, we must first come to a biblical understanding of Church-state relations, and we must consider to what extent we are responsible for what SA has become. Hogg and Mashaba have given us further impetus in their interview to do just this.

Craig Bailie is the Founding Director of Bailie Leadership Consultancy. He writes in his personal capacity.

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